169: The Evolution of Dubai’s Vertical Farming Show

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:00:00:

The reason I always wanted to pick up agriculture was that I am very close to the soil. I grew up in a family. We have a lot of farms, orchids and all. That's what we did on the ground level. So I had natural, you know, inclination towards it. And then we wanted to do something modern, for example tech in agriculture, you know, or tractors in agriculture. And then now the vertical farming and all. So that is what picked this up. But besides that, I think how we generally do it that we first of all focus on specific regions. Say for example for us right now Africa or Middle east is other key areas, key regions.

Harry Duran 00:00:36:

So. Tahir Abdul Bahri, founder and CEO of the TAP Group, thank you so much for joining me on the vertical farming podcast.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:00:41:

Thank you so much, Harry for having me here. It's a pleasure.

Harry Duran 00:00:45:

So just for people watching and listening, where are you now? Where's home?

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:00:49:

But today I'm in India, so that's one of our offices. Is. Yeah, okay. It's around midnight here now.

Harry Duran 00:00:56:

Okay.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:00:57:

Happy to be with you. Yeah.

Harry Duran 00:00:59:

Well, thank you so much for making the time. I know sometimes since we have a show that covers a global audience, you have to be pretty creative to find a schedule that matches.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:01:06:

Absolutely. I think time really doesn't then matter. Yeah.

Harry Duran 00:01:09:

So where is home for you? Where did you grow up?

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:01:11:

Well, I come from a very beautiful place. It's Kashmir. I'm not sure if you heard about it. It's the northernmost part of India. So it's where I initially grew up. And okay, I went around in Delhi, the capital of India. So that's where most of our studies went and all. And we started the business in 2010. So there was the events business but then since 2020 moved to UAE Dubai. That's where I currently stay with my family. But I traveling between Delhi and Dubai.

Harry Duran 00:01:45:

So what do you miss most about India when you go back?

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:01:48:

Friends and you know, food. The amazing people have. But yeah, I'm fortunate, you know, to get a chance to move almost every 10 days. So. Yeah.

Harry Duran 00:01:57:

So wow.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:01:58:

It isn't too much why it is a lot of travel but yeah, that's how we are trying to manage it.

Harry Duran 00:02:04:

So I was looking at the part of your CV and you've got some experience in business strategy. But I'm curious, like how did you get the idea or you know, what was going on in your world for you to come up with the idea of creating an events company? That's a lot of work.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:02:17:

Well, I think it has been always exciting. I grew up, you know, People who had some sort of interest in events. So that's I think where the initial spark went. And then I had an opportunity after I completed, completed my business studies and I had an opportunity to work in a events company in Mumbai here in India. And I think after about day and a half, one of my other cousins, he was based in London and we, he was also working in an events company. And then we planned to start something of our own. So that's how all the journey started. So around 2010 we ventured. It's really a, it's a very exciting industry to be very honest. I'm in. But it's very challenging. You know, it's tough, it's challenging, but it's very exciting and very satisfying as well. It has been a roller coaster ride, you know, for us, but we've learned a lot of amazing things during this journey. We met a lot of great people, very inspiring people, you know, who keep encouraging us and. Yeah, but at the same time you get a lot of opportunity to travel, to meet new people, to, you know, know about new cultures. And the other thing for us which is really good and exciting is that we do events across different industries and sectors so we get to know a lot about what is happening in different segments, different sectors across the world. So yeah, that's also. That keeps us going.

Harry Duran 00:03:42:

I would have to ask obviously because anyone that was involved in the events space had a big shock in 2020. So I'm curious, you know, when you think your whole business is bringing people together from different parts of the world to meet in person and you can't do that for maybe a year or something like that, or two years. I don't know how much it impacted you, but I'm curious how you handle that.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:04:02:

It was a big impact then, in fact, big so because we rebranded our company in 2019 so was with a very new energy, you know, new face of the company. I think in 2019 I traveled to more than 20 countries in about three months and we were signing new events with the governments that were to take effect in 2020. And we came back, you know, with a lot of energy, motivation and we were really excited. We hired, you know, new teams and we're all up and we were going. And then when we got to know about the news, I think I was in Tanzania at that time and it was my daughter's birthday. I remember it was on 15th of March. We have hearing, had been hearing a little cases but we're all like, okay, it's something, but it will nothing Much to worry. So I flew back. The airport was empty at Tanzania. And when I came back, I think I just skipped the quarantine at the airport because I remember after my flight, all the other flights that were coming, they were all being taken to the quarantine. So I came back home, and next day everything was shut. And initially, we could not really gauge, you know, what was happening. So we thought that maybe it's for a few weeks or something. But then, you know, the weeks turned out to months, and then more months and more months. So it was very tough, I mean, because we had planned a lot of new things. But I am so grateful, especially to my team at tab. I mean, I think it's very rare that, you know, a lot of. I would say almost all our senior staff are the ones who joined us in 2010, and they're still with us. So, you know, we're very close to each other, and they gave a lot of support and, you know, encouragement during that tough time. So we obviously turned to virtual events. That was the only thing we could do because our industry involved traveling and getting people together, both of which were then, you know, restricted and banned. But we turned on to virtual events. They did not really work, to be very honest. We tried for a few months. We did some webinars, some, you know, online conferences, but they didn't work out. But then I think something which clicked was later in October and November, where we tried to do virtual exhibitions. So we had virtual booths for people and where, you know, they were there. And then people would sort of jump in virtually into the booth. They could download the product catalog categories, they could do the meetings there, which was something new. And I think, I believe, you know, we were one of the very few companies who were able to deliver the world virtual exhibition successfully. And the first edition of Global Vertical Farming show was a virtual edition. And I think that what helped us to, you know, pick up our pace again. So we were able to settle down our bills. We were able to, you know, use salaries on time. We were able to get back on the track. So this is why Vertical Farming show is even more closer to my heart. We do a lot of other shows, but, you know, I consider it as something which pulled us away with pillars, picked us up from a storm. So it works really well. That was the first edition, virtually we did. There were a lot of very good sponsors, from Signify to Formfluence to other companies, you know, who sponsored the event. And it went very well as a first edition.

Harry Duran 00:07:21:

Is the TAB Group, the First time you have the position of CEO?

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:07:25:

Yes, I'm the founder, so yes, I'm the CEO. Before this, I was working at another company and I think I was the head of business strategy for a few years. But yeah, here in Tab Group, yeah, it's the first time I'm here as a CEO.

Harry Duran 00:07:39:

What's that journey been like for you? Because I know like a lot of first time CEOs, you know, I'm assuming you have some pretty good mentors and people that helped you and maybe to this day, you know, because there's a lot of things maybe that you're learning along the way, different leadership skills when you're the person, you know, who's in charge of everything.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:07:55:

I think it's always a journey which has a lot of different directions. You know, there are very tough situations we face then, you know, there are some challenges that we face across the way. But as you mentioned, I think mentorship, or having a good mentor and a good network of people, it's extremely critical. And for me, my grandfather was somebody who was my mentor from the very beginning when I was a child. So he sort of instilled in me the, you know, principles of honesty, the principles of hard work, the principles of dedication and. Yeah, and I come from a sort of a business family, so we have agriculture related business, we have agrochemistry and all, we have farms. So that is also somewhere where I growed closely to this. And also, you know, got to learn from my seniors at home. You know, how do they deal with people with the vendors, with the suppliers and everyone. So yeah. And then obviously in the events industry, there are a lot of amazing people that I have been fortunate to meet over the years who have been, you know, very kind in terms of, you know, helping us drive things and think as a mentor for us. I think that's really very important to have very good mentors who would always show you the right direction.

Harry Duran 00:09:15:

Yeah, that is helpful. Especially with everything that keeps changing in the event space. And I think when you do an event well, people keep coming back and it's easier to build those relationships because you're building them over years. Because if they came and they were there for the first show.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:09:29:

Absolutely.

Harry Duran 00:09:29:

Then it's easy. Like they tell you in business, it's easier to get to keep a client than to get a new client. So. But obviously if you're doing it right, you're building these relationships that last for years and now they become more like partners for you. I'm sure when you think about the people that took a chance on the show from the, the first year, you know, and that you want to make sure you continue to strengthen those relationships.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:09:51:

Absolutely. I think this is very important. I remember a very interesting incident. So one of my team members in the business development, but it's long back, I think about 2014 or 15. We're doing an event in Nigeria. And it was not one of our best events because we couldn't see the type of, let's say, the revenue we would expect generally on an event or the number of exhibitors we'd expect on an event. And, and I mean, we were just trying to see how we can, you know, break even at least. So this guy came up to me, he said that, you know, we have so many very good clients who believe in us, who trust in us, who have been with us for so long. But then I said that, you know, you really need to be very careful because this is a new market for us and, you know, this is a new event for us. You really want to risk it. But he said that I want to be very honest with my. So he had a client, it was a very big company. They have been sponsoring our other events in other regions for a very long. He picked up the phone, said that, listen, my friend, we have been working together for so many years. I have provided you very good value in all the events. You already paid as well. This is an event and I want to be very frank with you. This is not working for us. I want you to come as a sponsor. We need this money now. And obviously they agreed on a few things that, okay, let us do this for you. We'll bring abc number of people, we will make them meet you at the event. But we're very honest with them and we said that this is how it is. But I don't know, I wanted to give it a try. They signed up, they paid us the money, we reached the break even, we did well later on, closer to the event. So I think these things are equally important because it's always, you know, from both the sides. We have always tried our best to give as best the value as possible because we understand in events especially, there are a lot of people who might come to a specific country for the first time. It's not just the event or, you know, the networking or the business. It's also equally important. You know, maybe somebody's coming for the first time, helping them find a good hotel, helping arrange a few things for them, ultimately making, trying to make their lives comfortable and easy. I think that equally plays a very important role. And for me I believe that is where most of the relationship is developed. Even you know better than how it develops on the day of the event where you are actually talking business. So yeah, we try our best to help them as much as we can.

Harry Duran 00:12:09:

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I think when you're in the event space, people think about the actual event and the people that they're coming for that specific. To learn about that specific industry. But it's almost like you're also a spokesperson for the region. Right. Because there's people that are coming out of the country, they may be coming, you know, for the vertical farming show for to Dubai for the first time. So it's almost like the experience they have at the event is a reminder for them or it's how they feel about what their experience was like in that country as well. So it's almost like the added pressure of just making sure that, you know, newcomers to the country are welcomed in a way that makes them feel good.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:12:41:

Absolutely.

Harry Duran 00:12:43:

So I'm curious, so folks that don't understand or don't know Tab Group, can you just walk us through what the different events are?

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:12:49:

Yeah, so see generally our core fortes into agriculture, vertical farming is one of them. But we do Africa Agri Expo which has been up and running for nine editions now this year we're going to do the 10th edition. So we do in different African countries for example, as I said, Nigeria, Kenya, Tanzania and other countries. So that is one of our important shows that we do. We do a global class show. So which is on the glass, glass technology and all. We do logistics and cold chain Expo. Again that's a very. Introduced it last year. So this year it's the second edition happening in Dubai. Again a very niche event. There aren't a lot of events on specifically cold chain technology. So that's what we are doing this year then in addition to that we do medical, healthcare, medical technology, so these type of events. But our main areas of business are mostly into Middle east and Africa. That's where we're focusing most of the time.

Harry Duran 00:13:44:

How do you decide what industry to get into in terms of an event? It's interesting, like I didn't even know that there was an industry about glass steam and you have a whole event, you know, just for that cold chain, you know, these really niche. Niche. You've got print pack Tech Expo too. It's very specific and very niche. Is there some like, like research your team does or to see like what's growing or how do you decide? Because it's. It takes a lot of effort.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:14:11:

I think there are three ways generally this can happen. I. There's no formula, honestly, or, you know, we cannot say that, okay, this is something new and this is where we want to go into the next to. Yes, of course there could be AI there could be, let's say robotics and all, which we know is something emerging and coming up. That could be one of the ways for people to do and then focus on that. But besides that, I think a could be your previous experience or, you know, where you close the field with. For example, for myself, the reason why I always wanted to pick up agriculture was that I am very close to the soil. I grew up in a family. We have a lot of farms, orchids and all. That's what we did on the ground level. So I had natural, you know, inclination towards it. And then we wanted to do something modern, for example, tech in agriculture, you know, or tractors in agriculture, and then now the vertical farming and all. So that is what picked this up. But besides that, I think how we generally do it that we first of all focus on specific regions. Say, for example, for us right now, Africa or Middle east is other key areas, key regions. Then we sort of try to find out a specific country where we're looking at three or four sectors. We work on mining, we used to work a lot on mining. So we shifted our focus a little now. But that is something which is on the radar. So let's say infrastructure it. So we have a team of people who would come up with these ideas. We have a framework. For example, we have already picked up a few countries or the regions and let's say about eight to nine industries around which we want to do. That's mostly because we have expertise, we have networks in those specific industries. Then they would sort of, you know, do research. They will talk to the governments, they will talk to the governments who would support us on those events. We will talk to potential sponsors or companies to see how. What their feedback and reaction is. So, yeah, that is a sort of a process. But I think generally there is no specific formula or there is no framework. It's mostly the gut that, you know, you sort of, you know, get a feeling that, okay, this is something that can work. And for me as an events professional, I think everything I see, I want to make an event around that. So, yeah, it's always open.

Harry Duran 00:16:28:

I can relate to that because I think about podcasting when I see niches, I think, well, maybe we should Do a podcast about that. So maybe there's a potential for a partnership we should probably talk about or something. Because I think we think the same way, but just within different directions. When you look at an event, you know, I'm assure you have to also make a tough decision sometimes if maybe one, the first one or the second one if it's not working out, you know, you probably have to decide if, you know, do you want to continue and because it's obviously an expense to do that every year. So do you come across like that thought process of like saying, hey, we have to really look at the numbers and see if this is still makes sense to continue?

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:17:03:

No, absolutely. I think that's also very important. And these are the decisions we probably have to take one day or the other. Because there's no point dragging along something, you know, which is A, not useful to you as a company, not profitable, and C, also not useful for the people who are coming. Because people come with an expectation. For example, a sponsor pays or something, or even somebody is traveling from a different country coming in for an event with a specific set of expectations and we're not able to meet those, then okay, for the first time, it's okay, we understand. And the people who sign up, they also understand there's a sort of a risk associated. It's the first edition, but they still anyways go up and they sign up. But for the second time or the third time, then it's a very different situation because you already know what's happening on ground, you know, practically what is happening. So, yeah, I think, and I'm not saying we never have had. We have had a few such experiences where we had to sort of scrap off a few events, probably especially those which didn't actually fall in our specific domain of work or in our specific domain of expertise. But there have equally been events which we launched for the first time thinking that we're just trying to see how it works. And now they are annual events, they're working very well. So, yeah, it's just sort of a, you know, game that keeps happening.

Harry Duran 00:18:21:

Talk to me a little bit about. You mentioned growing up you were surrounded by food and agriculture. Like what was your earliest experience, your earliest memories of like food or growing food?

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:18:30:

I used to go with my grandfather, as I said, so he would take me to our farm. So we have apple orchard mostly in Kashmir. And then I think we have had those walnut orchards, those trees. They were very big, very huge trees. But I think apple orchards were the main crop that we grew. So he would take me with him in the morning, so we'll walk through the trees. I had a lot of question that how do you decide what to spray, when to spray? Why do you think this is a sort of an insect that needs this, you know, sort of pesticide or chemicals and all? So he was always very calm and patient with me. So he used to, you know, give me examples of how trees grow. Why do they grow? Why doesn't the other one grow? So I very clearly remember, I mean, we used to play around in the orchard. We used to play hide and seek with my siblings and all. So, yeah, I have very fresh memories. And we still have those orchids. Whenever I have the opportunity to go there, I take my kids, you know, try to do the same thing what my grandfather used to do with me.

Harry Duran 00:19:30:

So, yeah, I might have to ask you for some advice. We just planted five apple trees in our yard.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:19:36:

Grade.

Harry Duran 00:19:39:

So how did you start learning about controlled environment, agriculture and what was happening in that space?

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:19:43:

I think this was something which came to us very new because during COVID we were trying to then figure out, you know, what we can do, especially in Agritech. And I think with our experience in overall agriculture, industry and eventually to agriculture, we met a few, because for us it was very different. I mean, I personally didn't even knew what vertical farming was. So we came across people who told us that this is what we are doing and this is a new system of, you know, agriculture where we can create, you know, buildings and boxes and we do the farming there. And I think that's where the idea stuck. And then we thought that let's just do it. And we always wanted to do more events in Dubai. And I think during that time Dubai was coming up with new projects and they were in the phase of announcing Bostanica. It was under, you know, the construction phase. And also there was something which was highlighted always. And then we tried to dig a little deeper, try to understand. We learned about it, we talked to a lot of people and yes, and then when we, you know, sort of really found that for Middle east and especially for uae, vertical farming is not just an option, you know, for people to see whether we want to do it or not. It's something which is by default, that's the best that they can do. And we saw the interest in people and yeah, that's how it started. And we started to do it. We launched the second physical edition in Dubai and that worked wonderfully, very well. I mean, we had a lot of support from the Government from the Ministry of Agriculture. And still, I mean there were not a lot. I don't remember any other event on vertical farming happening anywhere else in Middle east at that time. So I thought that was a very good opportunity for us. And also a first mover advantage. And we have been able to do very well with that advantage. And we're, yeah, we're building up the event each year. It's growing.

Harry Duran 00:21:34:

How has the event evolved since you first started? Obviously you started virtually, but then once you started having in person meetings, how has it changed? Has it grown? What has been like the relationships with the vendors over the years?

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:21:45:

Drastically. See the first one we did, the virtual one, I think there were about 100, 150 participants joining us virtually, but and also not sure if all of them were actually listening and keeping their cameras open, but they were there. So yeah, but then when we went with the first one, I think we had about 800 people who came to the event a lot, many of them from outside uae. And then interestingly we started working very closely with adafsa, that's the Udhabi Food Safety Authority. So they have a lot of initiatives on agritech and indoor agriculture technology. Along with that, the Ministry of Climate Change and Environment in UAE which is responsible for the agriculture. So these were the type of supporting partners that, you know, agreed to support the event, that saw the potential in this event. So we did it in hotel in the first in Dubai for the first time. So not a very big space. So there was a conference room and there was a little space for exhibition. So yeah, and there were about 800 people. But the experience was amazing. I mean the conference was full of people every time there were so many discussions happening, it was all over the social media and it was also on news channels because this was a very interesting topic for people. So Arabian news. And also it was featured there. The next edition we moved on to a bigger venue. Again it was a hotel, but it was a bigger space, a lot bigger space. And I think the number of people doubled in the second in the third edition. And yes, I mean the size started growing and all. And then the last one we did was one of the biggest indoor conference centers in Dubai, which is the Lee Meridian. So it was a pretty big space. And again a lot of people now coming in from more countries and especially from other GCC countries or Middle Eastern countries. And this year, I mean it's going to be the biggest of all because the venue is very, very huge venue. It's the festival arena. So it's about 5,000 square meters in size, a pretty big venue. So yeah, it has grown, it has evolved. We made a lot of connections on the way. Different type of. I think each year we sort of tried to figure out something new. I think last year so we had led companies, we had technology companies, robotic companies. But last year we got the substrate, a lot of substrate companies, the Coco Pete and so it. I'm not saying it was new for us, we knew but then there was a, you know, a different energy in that team who were focusing on those. We had a lot of people from Sri Lanka because I think that's the area where, you know, they have the, they grow a lot, they are able to source a lot of that stuff. Coco Peat. So a lot of people came from there as well. So yeah, and this year we are doubling in our efforts in terms of getting more regional participants. For example, Saudi we consider is a very good emerging market again for the vertical farming sector. So we are in touch with est, which is the Ministry of Agriculture responsible for agritech and vertical farming and all. So we are getting them on board. We are getting senior companies from Qatar, Bahrain, Oman. So yeah, so we want to make it not just for UAE but for whole of the Middle East.

Harry Duran 00:24:55:

Does your team do a lot of like post event analysis of where people are coming from different countries and do you try to adjust the conference the following year to accommodate or.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:25:04:

Yes, I think we definitely have the metrics to see that we have been doing and we also keep it open for people to, you know, sort of give us suggestions in terms of any specific topics that we want to do. Our panels initially we didn't have. We have had panels of financing and banks and all but I think the investors panel was missing earlier in maybe second or third edition, but then in the fourth edition. So this was the feedback from a lot of people and it's always good because you know, they don't just suggest, they also help you in finding out the people. So they had connections, they had network where they were very good investors who were specifically willing to invest in agritech or indoors and all. So we got connect, they got us connected with them and next year we had a wonderful panel on, you know, investment opportunities. So amazing investment companies and firms and funds who came to the event. So yeah, I think that's also very important, always important to have a good feedback from the clients, you know. Yeah, an open feedback which will always help us to improve the events.

Harry Duran 00:26:07:

How is your knowledge of vertical farming increased since running the show?

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:26:11:

Oh, I. It's very interesting and I think, see, because it keeps evolving every day and there are many at times, you know, some news which are not very encouraging. But then, you know, when we see a week ahead of that, then you have something or the other thing that, you know, pulls you up again and says that, no, it's not always dark, there's always light. And some people are doing really well overall. Yes, I think I've sort of tried to learn and now I can relate to the. When I go to the grocery shop in Dubai and I find out those cherry tomatoes and I tell them that, okay, I mean, I know where it's coming from, how it's grown, how do they look so beautiful. So, yeah, we. You sort of relate to it then as well. And yes, I mean, it will. It always gives us more opportunity to learn in more detail. And I think what's even more important is that you get to know these people. You get to, you know, talk to these people.

Harry Duran 00:27:02:

Oh, yeah.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:27:03:

And you always get wonderful insights from them. So, yeah, that's what helps us to evolve ourselves as well.

Harry Duran 00:27:09:

It's been interesting for me because when I go now, I'm more aware in the super in the grocery store. Like I used to not pay attention and just everything just comes from California here in the States. But you start to realize that travels 3,000 miles to get there. And now you pay attention. Oh, from a greenhouse, locally grown, hyperlocal, these things start to become more important. And I guess the journey was the same for you.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:27:27:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you try to relate things, you know exactly where it's coming from. Yeah. And you also know the people who are actually growing it so it becomes, you know, more personalized.

Harry Duran 00:27:38:

And so how do you think about when you're in the show? Do you try to make all these events? I see a lot on the calendar. So this is probably why you're traveling all the time.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:27:46:

Traveling, I mean, events and traveling, it's something you cannot separate. So, yeah, it's not always easy. There are days where you really look forward to, you know, travel and to go. Then there are days when you really want to shut down everything. You don't want to travel, but I mean, we try to cope up with things then also having little kids, I have four kids, so having little kids around and not being available for them every time, it's a little challenging. But yeah, I think as they grow, they understand how things happen. And then we try to spend as much quality time as possible when we are around. So yeah, Traveling is a part. You cannot, you know, you cannot skip that. So I'm used to taking flights at night, you know, waking up early morning. Yeah. Then having a two hour sleep and then trying to freshen up quickly. So yeah, that's part of how it happens. So I'm very happy with that. It's not a big challenge.

Harry Duran 00:28:41:

All the more reason to probably be eating healthy and eating healthy food.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:28:44: Yes.

Harry Duran 00:28:45:

I'm curious because you have four kids, have you been thinking about the future where you start to educate them about like learning and understanding where food comes from? Because you know, as a child myself of the 80s, you know, all these commercials, this processed food and like of course in America, you know, it's everything's fast food and you know, you go, you think that everything comes from the grocery store but you forget, you know, the people that that's not how it always used to be. And so I'm grateful. Now I live in Minnesota and my father in law is a hunter so learned about hunting deer and that people, this is how it used to be. And so you know, we forget that sometimes.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:29:20:

It's very important, you know, because ultimately I think as we go up now, but I think I have seen a lot of changes now. Especially people, they are becoming more careful about, you know, what they are actually eating. So it's not just low sugar, no sugar even for other food generally. I mean I have practically seen a change in people. You know, they realize that this is not something which is sustainable. This is not something we can continue doing. So they are becoming more health conscious. So yeah, that's a positive change for me to see while. Yeah, we can see that.

Harry Duran 00:29:55:

Obviously what's interesting about running an event and specifically with the Global Farming show, you can tell almost like the state of the industry based on which vendors are coming back or you know, maybe, oh, we don't have any more money or you know, maybe the LED is big one night or like you saying like the Coco P is big one year. So it's almost like you have a gauge based on the types of companies that are coming in to see which sectors in vertical farming are doing well.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:30:20:

Absolutely. And also, I mean at times it's also a little, I would say surprising and heartbreaking. We have had some very amazing companies who came up, good sponsors. They, you know, they were able to meet good partners here and two years later on when we, you know, spoke again, they said that we have closed the business. So which is again, I mean some not just because they paid us the money or we want them to come again. But it's something we know those people who were so fascinated, excited about what they are doing, really full of purpose. And then I mean the business couldn't sustain. So yeah, I mean we get to encounter such experiences as well, especially in this, but mostly in the other sectors. I mean there are businesses who have been running and up for 50 years, 60 years, they're still going on. But this is something where we see such changes happening. But at the same time we also see a lot of experiences where we, you know, sort of get enquiries from people who say that we have recently set up this business and we want to expand it in Middle East. So one year bank they were not in the business at all. We know them, they were not in this business. But it has been six months and we get a lot of such inquiries as well. So again, I think it's a mix up of things. But yeah, it gives us a fair idea about, you know, which sector is doing well. Even for example, when we talk about LED sort of lights, which is a very important sector, we have big sponsors who come up with the light. We see a drastic change in the line of products that they are, you know, launching or featuring at the event. So every year they say that the one we were featuring last year, it's almost, I mean it's gone now. They are not, we're not selling them anymore because this is more advanced and this is more energy efficient and all. So the previous year's, you know, product line is gone out of the shelves. It's not there at all. So we see a drastic change these things as well.

Harry Duran 00:32:15:

And the model is different because obviously in the States a lot of the revenue comes from the ticket sales. And what I noticed like when attending events abroad and specifically in the Middle east and I think Green Tech is the similar model. It's almost like a free ticket or a very low $20. And can you talk a little bit about the pricing model for events? And I'm sure every region is differently but maybe for global farming we do.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:32:37:

Have mostly running sort of models. That one is a conference focused event where conference is the main focus. And then maybe on the side we might have let's say 10, 20 exhibits on the side where the sponsors would exhibit their products. Or it's a ticketed event 100%. So let's say we charge per ticket. Each delegate pays the ticket to come up and be the part of, okay, the another type of events that we do, it's an expo focused event. So the Revenue is, comes in from the exhibition area, the sponsorship modules and all where people have the exhibits, they have the booths, they have the branding, sponsorship original and conference. Again it's equally important. But that runs parallelly. So for the conference, I mean we don't focus really on selling the conference per se. So our focus is to, you know, generate the revenue through the exhibition area. So yeah, I mean these generally are two types of, I would say sets of events that people do. Both of them are equally fine as long as you have the right strategy in place.

Harry Duran 00:33:38:

Yeah, as long as they end up being profitable, that's probably very important. So I'm curious Abdul, for this event, for people who have never been to the Vertical Farming show, how would you describe it? And you know, has anything changed from last year or is there stuff that you're looking forward to in terms of like how you've organized it or anything about the show that you want to share?

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:33:58:

See, I think anybody who wants to know about this or who we want to tell about this, it's way I have very brief description a Middle east, especially uae, it has amazing opportunities in vertical farming. That is not just because, I mean it's an option. This is the only best option whether it's successful or not, but this is the only best option they have. They don't really have another, you know, a lot of other options. So this is something which will be the key focus of the government more and more in coming time. So they will definitely come up with more and more such projects. They will invest in such projects and they are doing it all. So a, it's a segment which is bound to grow each and each year and number two, the Vertical Farming Show. I mean happy as I said in the beginning as a first mover we tried to do it. This is the largest and the only exclusive vertical farming event in the region. There is no other event which is specifically focused on vertical farming. So if there is anything related to vertical farming, I'm very proud and at the same time humbled by the support people have given us to be part of the show which really brings the complete ecosystem together for this year. Definitely we are moving to a very, very, I mean almost double the size of the last year's event. So we expect this to be very big. And as I said we are doubling down on the people coming in from the other Middle Eastern countries, especially Saudi Arab, Bahrain, Qatar, you know, Oman and all. Yeah. And I think we have already signed up almost all the major vertical farm owners in UAE who will be present at the event. So they're the ones who would want to look at the new technologies, the new LEDs, the new, you know, robotics. So they have already signed up for the event. They will be with us. And this year we are also developing a growers pavilion, so where we give opportunity for the farm owners to maybe, you know, showcase what they are doing successfully, how they are growing successfully, and what, you know, can come up as success stories for other growers as well. So this is a new thing we have introduced this year. Yeah, I hope goes well and people actually benefit from this as well.

Harry Duran 00:36:12:

So if you were just in charge of one conference, it would probably be a lot. But you obviously have many different conferences under the tab brand. How do you think about team building? You know, how do you, what do you look for when you, you know, because you can't be in all places, you can't be on top of everything. You have to build a team that you trust that can think like you think. And so I'm curious, you know, as a leader, how you think about, you know, finding the right people.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:36:38:

I think this is a very interesting question and something that I, I, you know, would want to talk for hours and hours. I think there is absolutely no alternative to have a good team. I mean, you can, nobody can succeed without having a good team. And I think one of my first learnings came, as I said, I was very fond of my grandfather. So it came through him. I saw him, how he treated, respected and loved people. And he showed that to us in real life. Examples, the principles, you know, how do you treat people? How do you respect people? That is something I think I have tried to, you know, learn from the very beginning. And I think there is absolutely no alternative to having a good team. There are two or three very important things that we should always consider when you are hiring people. I don't think. See, as long as you are not hiring a technical person, for example, somebody for it or a specific software, then obviously one of the core competence should be his, you know, expertise in that particular skill set. But besides that, if you are hiring for, let's say, public interface role or a operations role, obviously there should be some basic, you know, skill set that you require, but there is nothing that, you know, you cannot train them on. So I don't think that should always be the key criteria. The key criteria should generally be the attitude that, you know, you have, the person you are trying to hire has. And above that, does he really fit into your culture? Because then it becomes very challenging. For example, if my style of management is, you know, extremely employee friendly, as an example, and I hire a manager who might not be so friendly or who is not comfortable, then it's a mess. Because you try to take things in one direction, another person tries to take in another direction, it's very tough. So I think watching people on the attitude and how close they are to your culture, what you're trying to develop, it's very important that that helps people to stay in the long run. And I am very thankful. I mean, as I said, all my heads of most of my department, the sales head, the production head, the operation head, these are the guys we picked up from the campus. So they were graduating. So they graduation, we hired them from the campus and they're with us ever since. So I mean, it's something I'm always very happy about. But it doesn't mean that nobody leaves us. There are people who probably say a nice goodbye to us as well. But I think having a sense of purpose, being close to your team, because you spend almost 80% of your time at your office with your colleagues, so being good friends, being, you know, close to them, understanding and having a sense of direction where all of us are growing together, I think that makes all the difference. And for events industry, your team is extremely critical. If your team and you are not aligned, then your event is always at risk.

Harry Duran 00:39:48:

That's true.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:39:49:

You'll find somebody does. You go on the stage and the mic is not working because that is where, you know, they would not connect with you. They'll feel that, okay, this is our job, I did it, and now I am tired. But if you are aligned together, he or you will not sleep until you finish off everything, until you are very, you know, satisfied with what is happening. So it's very critical.

Harry Duran 00:40:12:

Yeah. That hiring is so important and hiring people from straight from the campus is smart because they don't come with any bad habits. You know, you can train them well from the beginning. And also this idea, like you said at an event, there's so many moving parts and there's so many. There's no way you would be able to like, be in every room, watch every stage, be at the door when people are coming in, see that the food is being prepared. You know, like there's some. You have to really have people who believe in your mission and who, you know, have the same core values as you because they have the interaction with the person. I think I heard one time the Four Seasons Hotel and is very famous hotel chain in the United States. I Think someone who used to work there one time, they were trained that if someone came to you, even if it's not your department, even if it's not your problem, like if a customer came to you, you were responsible for taking care of that problem. And that always stuck to me. That's an ethic, right? That's a way of doing business in a way that shows the attendees that you value them.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:41:08:

Absolutely. And see, for. Especially if we talk about the operations of the events, you know, that is the real day when everything is happening. Exhibitors or your sponsors, they're already stressed. They have, you know, traveled a lot. Now they are trying to figure out things. Let's say they are trying to paste something, it's not happening. You know, they don't find a tape or a glue to paste it. I mean, it doesn't. For me, as an event organizer, I should be ready and prepared to, you know, provide everything that I can do, even if it means that I have to pull up a chair myself, you know, help him take it from him, hang it for him, because for him, it will ease up his life. And that is the type of the experience he will always remember. So, yeah, that is what we try to do. I mean, that's what the direction we have for our team, that I always tell them, a client is a client until we are closing a deal. Once the deal is closed and you come at the event, treat them as your guests. It doesn't matter whether they are your sponsors or exhibitors or they just came for the event, then they are your guest. It's our responsibility to make their life comfortable.

Harry Duran 00:42:17:

Yeah, it's almost like the experience. I just recently came across somebody recommended to read Walt Disney's biography. I've heard good things about it, but I think obviously he created something magical experience for people and children. So it's on my list. And I think it's related to something you said about like, you know, you want them to feel like they have an experience when they're coming, you know, that they're being taken care of.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:42:36:

Absolutely.

Harry Duran 00:42:37:

So we're getting close to the end of this conversation. Thank you so much for making the time. I really appreciate it. But, you know, I always ask this question because it feels like I get a different answer every time as the leader of the company. But what is a tough question you've had to ask yourself recently?

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:42:51:

Well, I think it's. I've been asking that, when do you plan to step down as a CEO? So that is what I have been asking myself, honestly, I have no answer at the moment. I feel there are a lot of things we still need to work on. There are a lot of things we need to strategize and, you know, create more systems. But yeah, that's something what I have been asking myself that when do you step down and, you know, leave it in better hands for to take it up from here? But yeah, I think it will still take some time, in fact, a lot of time, but. And preparing myself and the team for that.

Harry Duran 00:43:30:

Yeah, it sounds like you're still enjoying what you do. So you still be doing it.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:43:35:

I enjoy it. I enjoy being in the office with my colleagues. So most of us are very good friends now. We know what we like, we know what, you know, people enjoy. So as I said, I mean, it has been almost about 15 years people, so they, A lot of them have been there ever since. So they're very good friends. So, Angie, we have a lot of fun. You know, we go to trips, we go to. Yeah, that keeps happening.

Harry Duran 00:44:01:

Yeah, it's like your second family for sure. So I like to close these conversations with this, the spirit of collaboration within the indoor farming industry. So do you have any thoughts for, you know, there's a lot of your colleagues, other CEOs, you know, if you've listened to some of the episodes, you know, that, you know, we're trying to establish more communication for the industry, people work together, not keep everything so close to the vest like my own secrets, you know, in indoor farming. So any thoughts since you've worked with so many companies in the space, it's, you know, coming in on so many years of the conference. Any thoughts for the indoor farming industry, you know about in the spirit of collaboration that come to mind for you.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:44:41:

See, I think it's absolutely critical, especially given at this stage A is the confidence building major, because I have had opportunity to talk to a lot of people, some of them who are investing in this sector, some of them who are already providing technologies, a lot, many of them who are developing something new. But I think at this point in time we have to be very practical and we have to, you know, understand the fact that this is still evolving sector. This is still, and I would say one of the first phases. So it's not fully developed. It's not even, you know, close to being somewhere where we can call that, okay, this is now a very prune technology now it's getting better and better every day. But I think it's something which is still evolving. This is the time when collaboration should be at Its highest point because we need support from each other, we need technology transfers, we need even what people are doing in academics and universities, what sort of research they are doing. It's very important that know we get connected and then I think there would be setbacks as we have seen in the recent past. We heard maybe some news which was not very positive, but that is the time where people should come up together, you know, and also talk about the positive things that is happening in the industry. Because yeah, of course there are very good things that are happening. There are new projects that are being launched, there are new investments people are getting and then there are cases where, you know, people just burnt the money. But it's equally important because we have to give confidence to all the stakeholders, to the investor fund managers, to the banks, to the governments who would approve the projects, who would give opportunity for people to launch their project. Yeah, so I think it's important that communication in support of the industry, collaboration, especially at this point of time and coming together, seeing this as a single, you know, seeing this as a industry that has challenges, it will face challenges, but it will definitely grow. Maybe not with what we have today, maybe what we are developing now and it will have, you know, its effects tomorrow, but it's different. And then again, as I said in the beginning, there are places where vertical farming is an option for people, they try to do it. But then seriously, there are places where this is not an option. This is the only thing that they have got now. They need to improve our happens more efficiently. But this is something that can have a real impact on what, you know, maybe the weather or the water scarcity, the temperature, how will we grow in regions like uae? So this is what we have, we have to improve this.

Harry Duran 00:47:28:

That's a great parting words and I think it's a great way to wrap up this conversation. I think this spirit of collaboration is important. So I want to thank you again for taking the time. I'm really glad your team reached out and we had discussion conversation. It's so interesting to see how early you were in the space because you can tell something that I thought is funny. You can tell by your ability to grab a domain like vertical farming show like well if you. That means you early like I did with this show verticalfarmingpodcast.com so you know, we've been. It's interesting to see being early and also seeing how it's changed. I've learned so much just from these conversations and I think it's been the same for years. So it's been so fun to hear your background, also your journey and, you know, how much of an influence your grandfather was. You know, you don't think about it sometimes, but when you look back, you're like, oh, you put the pieces together and you see how all paths led to where you are now. So I really am glad you shared it and I think you're doing great things and you have the right mindset and you've built a fantastic team and it shows in the quality of the events that you're running. So we'll make sure we have links to a vertical farming show in the show notes. Anywhere else you want to send people to connect with you and your team.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:48:34:

It'S on the website or on the LinkedIn. Basically. Yeah.

Harry Duran 00:48:38:

Okay, so we'll make sure we'll have all those links in the show notes. Thanks again for your time, Zahir. I really appreciate it and really enjoyed this conversation.

Tahir Abdul Bari 00:48:44:

Thank you so much for having me on their show. It was really an amazing experience and I really. And in fact, I've been following the Vertical Farming podcast for a long time and I really saw, I mean, you are putting in a lot of efforts and you're playing a great role for people, you know, to get to know more about what is happening in the industry, who are the ones who are, you know, taking it forward. That's an amazing work and amazing spirit. I really appreciate it and it's an honor for me to be here with you and to be included with such people. So thank you very much and I'm very glad to invite you to Dubai for the Vertical farm so we can talk about it later in detail. But we'll be very glad to have you there and we can catch up there as well.

Harry Duran 00:49:27:

Appreciate your time.