173: Unlocking Million Dollar Grants for Indoor Farmers with Andy Seckinger

Andy Seckinger 00:00:00:

At the end of the day, there's three reasons why people buy. Are you going to make me money? Are you going to save me money? You're going to make my life easy. You just can't come out and go, hey, Harry, do you like to make your life easy? You know that doesn't work that way. So you got to do a little brain surgery and understand what the end is mine and ask really good questions. Not a lot of them, but you got to connect lower resistance and get somebody to trust you, and then you can move on and start talking about how you're going to help someone. I made this sound really easy, but like most things in life, you can know stuff, but unless you experience it, knowing really doesn't do much, so.

Harry Duran 00:00:35:

Andy Seckinger, sales director at United Grants of America, thank you so much for joining me on the vertical farming podcast.

Andy Seckinger 00:00:42:

Harry, thank you. And I got to tell you, it's a pleasure to meet you. It's been nice getting to know you, but I want to sincerely thank you for what you do, because I have a history of not doing a lot of podcast stuff, but when I started looking at yours, it was just beautiful and what you do. And I think everybody that you have on here and how helpful it is to the community. So thank you for inviting me into this.

Harry Duran 00:01:04:

Well, thank you for those kind words. I really appreciate it. So for the folks listening and watching, we were connected at Indoor Icon recently, and it's. I can't believe it's August. And that was back in. Was it late February? March. Time flies.

Andy Seckinger 00:01:19:

Yeah, it does.

Harry Duran 00:01:21:

And was that your. I'm curious about. We'll talk a little bit about your background, but yes. Is this sort of like your first experience into the world of, like, the indoor side? Because I know you've had some experience in the ag side, but I'm curious what your take was with the conference overall and then and the conversations you had there.

Andy Seckinger 00:01:38:

It was very impressive. Impressed in a different way, because that was my first indoor Egg Con show. The first one that I went through was actually in the beginning of the year, to the World, a show out in California. So obviously those are very different. What kind of blew me away was when I was out in California and I'm going to get to the vertical farming, but I really was taken aback because I had a farm in Iowa, except we didn't farm. We rented out to the neighbor, and I farted around with some stuff. But that's where I really. We'll talk about my background in a minute. But that's where I really came. Indoctrinated the farm, farming community. But out there, what was wonderful was, I swear you could leave your wallet on a table and maybe 20 minutes later a loudspeaker would come up. This didn't happen, but I believe it could. Hey, someone left their wallet and all their money sitting on the table, and I think someone would go over there and pick it up. It was just a beautiful audience of honest, wonderful people. When I went to the vertical farm show, it was the same thing, but because it's different farming, I was just impressed at the. The people there and the wonderful and beautiful things that they're trying to do to solve food deserts all the way to getting gainful employment and, you know, all kinds of things. So it wasn't overwhelming. It was very exciting.

Harry Duran 00:02:51:

What was the nature of the conversations you were having? Because obviously, when you see grants and you see that you guys did a nice job with the marketing and the display, and that sort of stands out. And, you know, farmers just getting started, anytime there's a mention of a possible grant or some support, especially in this environment, it gets people's attention. So I'm sure. And I think you had a good location, too. You're on the corner. So what was that like? You know, those conversations that you were having with people there?

Andy Seckinger 00:03:17:

That is a great question. I've done a lot of trade shows, and this one blew me away because. Thank you for what you said. But I think one of the things that made it fun but serious was we fund you money. And I was very happy at the volume of people that would come up and maybe have a smile on their face and say, hey, what are you about? What are you mean? And then we'd start talking about, you know, grants and programs for farmers. And so it went very well, and it was just wonderful. And that's how it happened. Engaging with and connecting with so many people, and then the beautiful things that they do and the intelligence behind everything they. They do. I was just. I'd say that's probably. That was a great indoctrination to vertical farming for someone like me, and that was wonderful.

Harry Duran 00:04:02:

What made the team decide that you wanted a presence there? And, you know, why is this sector, like, on your radar now?

Andy Seckinger 00:04:12:

Well, you know, especially crops in the industry that they're in, there's a great marriage of things that are vertical farming does that fits into agriculture. So obviously, all we specialize in is agricultural grants and programs. It looked like a good show for that. We also support things and sponsor things for certain individuals and whatnot. But just like some of the other shows, that one made a lot of sense because you've got specialty crops and there happened to been a program in the beginning of the year specifically for specialty crops. So that a good reason. But also you get more and more connected into that vertical farming and see how much we can help, you know, as many farmers as we can in it.

Harry Duran 00:04:52:

Talk to me a little bit about the history of United Grants of America. You know, how to get started. And, you know, I don't know how many people are aware of the organization there.

Andy Seckinger 00:05:02:

A gentleman, Eli Tacker, back in the day, decided to get into farming, vertical farming and was doing organic, you know, microgreens and whatnot. And then unfortunately suffered a disaster. And I think it was pre or kind of, you know, getting started when. Not right when Covid hit, but kind of pre Covid or what happened. And because he had a disaster on his farm, he didn't realize or became aware of all the grants and programs that were out there for farmers. And what he decided was, hey, I think I'd be better at this than I was at farming. And we laugh at it because, you know, he admits that, but he really became very passionate because he was a farmer about serving the farming community to help them sustain and get help. And so the idea then was birthed out of that from him, which I think was brilliant, was, hey, I want to build a firm that is going to be a service just for farmers and agriculture. And what's been driven by that is amazing. So he, I think officially like 2020 is when United Grants of America came about. And what's beautiful about it is just a sincere passion to help farmers. And when I had mentioned Iowa before, I'm going to, hopefully I'm answering your question, but I'm going to take you for a little walk around the block. I thought I knew about farming until I moved to Iowa. And I moved to Iowa to help my former wife keep a farm because they were about to lose it in their history. But I got to know the neighbors. And what was beautiful was I just really enjoyed getting to know farmers, but I was impressed at how hard they work and just everything that goes on involved in farming. I thought I knew things I didn't. And it was beautiful just to meet that community and get really indoctrinated. So when Eli had started the company, I was fortunate enough to meet him. I've been in corporate America my whole life, but the minute I heard about this, it's one of those moments in life where it was like, ooh, I'm jumping on this. And it was a very quick decision both ways, but a very good one because he understood what my background is. And basically my background is if you cut me, I probably look like a sales executive. However, I've never wanted to sell anybody anything. But I do like helping people buy things. So what's enjoyable in this, though, is just once you understand farming and have a connection to it, it's really beautiful to impact people this way as far as helping them facilit doing grants and programs, making sure it's successful, and just representing them in that. Because I personally, I don't like dealing with the government. I've been told at times I'm an intelligent person, and I don't know if I think that way, but I do not feel smart when it comes to doing your taxes, medical. And then when I got into this, I went, oh, this is wonderful. And then what's lovely is the clients that we work with, they really would prefer as long as someone knows what they're doing and maximizing things, you know, to the ones we work with. Love the fact that we do that for them.

Harry Duran 00:07:55:

So I got a couple of different branches that I'll be going into. But I'm curious. Let's start with your background in sales, because I know for farmers, a lot of times they get into this business because they have a passion for growing. They have a passion for, you know, they may have had a background in it. They're coming from an adjacent industry, and, you know, they know the. Sometimes they know the business side of it, sometimes they know the farming side of it, or there's a special combination of things they not understand. Maybe the market side of it, where a lot of farmers, I think, and entrepreneurs struggle, is sales. And as an entrepreneur myself, you know, now closing in on my 10th year of being an entrepreneur, you know, they don't. You don't learn this stuff when you're in corporate nine to five. Like, it's. No one's teaching sales because it's not part of my job responsibility, and I don't need to know it. And you quickly realize it's one of a certain number of skills that are vitally important for the lifeblood of an organization and for a business and especially like solopreneurs or small farmers. So I'm curious how, you know, what, you know, maybe the shortened version, but what your sales journey was like and what it is about sales that keeps you coming back. And then, you know, some. Maybe some kind of you know, best practices or thoughts you have, you know, for the. For this audience, based on your experience.

Andy Seckinger 00:09:16:

That is a great question. Thank you for asking this. So I got to make sure that I don't vomit all over you. Let's see. I was in the Air Force right out of high school. And then after I got out of the Air Force, I put myself through college at the University of Minnesota. And when I graduated, I was signed up for what used to be William Mitchell Law School. And they had said, hey, you know, you're going to get in. And I thought I was going to go to law school. And then in a moment one evening, I had a conversation with my former wife, and I used to blame her for this, that she taught you how to go into law school. But that's not true. It was my fault. I had a really nasty attitude about sales. So my inside voice was just thinking of people that were trying to scam you or take advantage of or swill their tires when they go out of the driveway when they sold you something. So I had a really negative attitude towards it. But what I told myself was, because I needed a job and I was working as a bill collector. I didn't want to do that. I just wait and go to law school. So to make a long story short, I had said, hey, wait a minute, I can still be an attorney. I'll just go represent someone's interest to a company and represent the company's interest. And for some reason, I just said this to myself, hey, you can still be attorney. Just go out and, you know. So I started out in sales, and I was in financial services, and I was selling life insurance and mutual funds as a independent agent. And as you probably know, people would love to avoid crossing, you know, go across the street to avoid talking to an insurance agent. What was a Groundhog Day? I love that moment when the guy's an insurance agent and, yeah, Bill Murray's character doesn't want to deal with him at all. But what happened in that was I was more focused on becoming and studying the science of sales. And I feel I was very fortunate. I was searching for something, but I found what was supposed to be a guru in sales training, because I had not thought about your question when you asked this. And it's smart. It sounds obvious, but it's not. And you're right. But because I wanted to treat it like a profession, I was very happy when I found out there were people actually that operated at a professional level. And that's when my view of sales changed. And I stopped looking at the way I did, and I went, oh, this is a profession, and it should be treated, you know, obviously with integrity and ethics. And the last thing I wanted to do was wheel my tires out of a driveway, for instance. I got a sale. I'm very strange. I don't know that I've ever been excited about a sale. It's more exciting to connect, get to know people and help them. And I sincerely mean that. So if you cut me and you look back at my sales career, anything that I've done, I've been fortunate. I've always been involved in companies that were either needing to grow and I was able to come in and execute and help in that, or once in a while, maybe bounce into companies where I call. Where it looks like they have everything figured out, where you're number 50, just do your job every day. I'm more interested in the ones where they need value and support to come in like you as an entrepreneur, and you can really see the value you're doing, and you can interact with the CEO and everybody else and really help the company grow. Sales is a tricky career because things can change and things happen just like any other career. But I stayed in it. And I certainly had moments where I'm like, you know, maybe I should be doing something else. But I didn't grow up, and I didn't have the skills of professional football player or baseball or anything else. So I guess my mouth was, you know, my sport. But I really became fascinated in connecting with people, and then I learned some things. Did you ask was there any advice as to, you know, learning or sales?

Harry Duran 00:12:50:

Yeah, because it's interesting. I think a lot of people have this impression of sales. In the beginning, it's just like this icky thing. And I don't know if you were burned by a used car salesman, but you used that screeching tires example a couple of times. I'm wondering if there's a story there, but.

Andy Seckinger 00:13:07:

Well, I don't want to be mean, but I just. I had some experiences where I'd either help a friend or go buy a car. And they'd always say, hey, help me buy a car. And you'd go into that dealership. And then when you got. Once in a while, I gotta be careful here. But you go back, the finance guy in the back, you know, you wanted to run home, take shower afterwards. And I'm not saying all the finance people, it's just like, oh, my gosh. And they're selling all the stuff. You don't want. So I had it really bad and pressure or it's people that were bugging you and whatnot. And so I was luckily that I learned a better way. But did I answer your question there?

Harry Duran 00:13:38: Yeah. So the really, the follow up there is, you know, what is it about? You know, you obviously have a love for and a passion for sales. So, you know, I don't think you were ever in a position where you had to train new folks on the team. And if they coming in with like, sometimes it's easier to train someone who's got no experience in sales because you don't have to like break some bad habits. But I'm curious maybe some nuggets of wisdom that sort of pop in or kind of vignettes of like, you know, your career when you as you're taking people, acclimating them and you know, because people that are listening and watching, you know, sometimes begrudgingly, you know, they have to figure out the hard way that sales is important and it's something they need to learn. So I'm curious what kind of wisdom you can impart from what you've learned in your experience.

Andy Seckinger 00:14:26:

You ask really good questions and I like to weigh your coconut burst. I'm going to jump to this. When I was in Minneapolis one time, I had a thing in the back of my mind where I always wanted to do standup comedy. And so I decided finally to face a fear. And I went to a place called the Laughing Cup Theater. I don't know if it's still there, but there is a wonderful man that ran it. I don't know if you can mention names and stuff, but he was responsible for actually helping a lot of successful comedians and whatnot in that industry. So I signed up for his class and in the beginning, you'll see where I'm going with this. But there was like 24 people in the class. But I was there for two reasons. Number one, I need to get this out of my system and do it on stage. Number two, I was doing it from a business sense because I thought, hey, I can use this to see how to handle an audience. Because I had done some public speaking and it went well for me, but I wasn't chiseled or, you know, experienced in that area. I had a little more, you know, growth to do. So I used this also to learn something in business. There were 24 comics the first night we went. And when we went into class, here's what he did. He said, hey, you're probably the people that stand around the Corner in high school or whatever, and everybody's hobbling around you, you're laughing, having fun, cracking jokes. Now you think you need to be a comedian. And he said, and this is what I have to beat out of you because he goes, you don't have to be a comedian. I just need to take you in your normal state and have you be who you are. So everybody, once, now everybody line up, get up on stage and start doing your comedy. And every one of us looked at each other in fear. None of us were funny and I wasn't. But there were things and ingredients in there that you wanted to be funny, but you were so nervous and uncomfortable and you got through it.

Harry Duran 00:16:15:

Yeah.

Andy Seckinger 00:16:15:

As we proceeded through the class, he did a beautiful job of trying to return us into what he had said. But finally we got up to go to the Acme Comedy Club, which is on the circuit, and it was on a Monday night and they had 18 comics. I'm probably in the middle somewhere, and now I'm introduced to a society that I'm not used to. And now I see what happens when they say, some comedians have a dark past. You're in a room of a real colorful group of characters, and I'm probably one of them. But having said that, I invited 30 of my friends and I told them all, I'm not going to swear, I'm not going to do any below the belt humor. But they all came out and 20 seconds, I was very nervous. And then all of a sudden I delivered my stuff in five minutes and everybody laughed and I got off stage. And then what happened was he said, hey, you got a career in this. And I go, no, I don't. I said, my wife has a. You know, we have a baby coming and I can't go on the road for two years and sample and lick the earth of every drug that's available out there. I'm not going to make it. I'm half kidding. But anyways, when it was done, I walked away from it and I realized, oh, my goodness, the audience gives you a quick moment to succeed. They really want you to succeed. And if you pay attention to that, you will concisely communicate in a. So we worked two weeks and I only had three jokes. We worked three weeks. But I think what farmers inherently do really well, from my experience is, well, put it this way. I moved to Iowa. I got to know a farmer who's a good friend of mine, and he still is. And he goes, hey. He said, andy, you're a good guy. But he goes, you got to get rid of that city slicker stuff. And I go, what are you talking about? And he goes, you talk real fast and use some big work once in a while. He goes, that stuff doesn't play well in this environment. And his criticism was wonderful because I wasn't trying to, you know, use big words, just the way, you know, I speak. But it was beautiful because it was like, calm down, you know, and just be direct and honest, which I always like to do. And I am who I am. But what it really made me feel comfortable with was you're dealing with very honest people. You want to be very concise. That part. We didn't have the conversation. But what made it very easy for me to come to work here is that you're dealing with people that are working very hard. They're busy, they're honest. So as long as you're upfront and honest, you're kind of good to go. In the sales part of things. There is a science to it. I'm lucky I learned it. But at the end of the day, there's three reasons why people buy. Are you going to make me money? Are you going to save me money? You're going to make my life easy. You just can't come out and go, hey, Harry, do you like to make your life easy? You know, that doesn't work that way. So you got to do a little brain surgery and understand what the end is mine. And ask really good questions. Not a lot of them, but you gotta connect, lower resistance and get somebody to trust you, and then you can move on and start talking about how you're gonna help someone. I've made this sound really easy, but like most things in life, you can know stuff, but unless you experience it, knowing really doesn't do much. If you're knowing and you experience and you believe in it, that's what has helped me survive through sales, because my attitude was, I'm here to help people. It's not about me. And let's face it, a lot of salespeople make the mistake. Sometimes they go, look at me. You know, you got a sign like, look at how special I am. And no one wants to hear that stuff. So the more you make it about someone else and understanding who they are and the fact you can marry some value to them, I think everything goes pretty well.

Harry Duran 00:19:40:

That was beautiful. I love the way you weave that story in there as well. And I don't know if I told you or if we discussed it, but I'm in Minnesota. I'm very Familiar with the Acme comic.

Andy Seckinger 00:19:48:

I wasn't actually intentional put that in there. I was just talking about my background, but I was sort of too. And Minnesota, like most places, is a great place to start sales. What's that? You remember Lake Street?

Harry Duran 00:20:00:

Yes.

Andy Seckinger 00:20:01:

Yeah. I told my former wife, dropped me off, and she goes, what are you doing? And Lake street wasn't that bad back in the day, but it had some stuff going on. But I said, I'm going to walk down to every business and knock on their door and prospect. I got to get this out of me. I'm afraid of this, and I can't. So I went and knocked it all the way down the street and back for, I think, I don't know, it's a Friday or a Saturday and it was brutal. But I had four people that were interested in something and I was like, okay. And then that was kind of where I started getting uncomfortably comfortable with, you know, trying to learn how to survive through sales. But what I also learned, too, is that, wow, what in a. How do I say this? The more you work on yourself, it's amazing how you make things much easier for the person on the other side of the conversation because the less garbage you bring to that, whether you know it or not, the more you're just really chiseled in what you're doing, the better things go. Does that make sense?

Harry Duran 00:20:58:

Yeah. That's interesting, this concept of working on yourself. Say more about that.

Andy Seckinger 00:21:02:

You can project things on people. And I just think sometimes more astute people, or most people, if they're not, they're going to notice something's going on here. You know, if you're up to something, don't we all just kind of not want to deal with people like that? Or if you do, maybe entertain them for a minute. But see, to me, I heard this, but I embraced it. It's a self improvement program with, you know, compensation on, with a compensation package on the rear end. You know, when you get into that, you're not going to get anybody to listen to you. But like, musicians and actors and other people, if you really believe in what you're doing and you hang in there, they'll stop throwing tomatoes and beer bottles at you. And after a while, you'll get better at what you're doing. You just got to get through, like, didn't it? AC DC said this one time, I loved it. They were criticizing American Idol, and I'm not involved in that part. But what I loved about him was he had said, hey, we started out back in the day when we had, you know, beer bottles and everything thrown us, we cut our teeth through that. You don't have to do that so much nowadays, but you kind of do. You really need to take care of your audience, whether it's one person or several, and make sure that you understand what they're doing and make it about them and not about yourself. So self improvement is when, oh, I think it's like, for me, it's a lifelong journey. I've had things happen to me, and instead of looking at as, oh, what happened to me, I said, wait a minute. What do I need to change or adjust in my compass to be happier or whatever I had mentioned. And I'm okay saying this. I hope it's okay, but I was married for 29 years and got fired. And I was suddenly confronted with being alone. And at one point, I thought this was gonna be a relief, but I incurred a sadness that I've never experienced in my life. And it was during COVID and some other things happened. But it was a very profound change in me because pain became a teacher, and I wasn't a bad guy or anything. I was just traveling around, trying to build business a lot, and I was too much on the road. But at the end of the day, it became a beautiful. At first, a little lonely walk going, what just happened? And then it became a beautiful thing where suddenly I was paying attention to stuff. And I guess I'm okay saying this. I believe I kind of went for a spiritual walk. And again, it just feeds back into the more that you can be in the moment and be present for someone. I think everything works out fine. But the more you don't have yourself figured out or anything, you're bringing that. And sometimes that can be annoying or take away from what you're really trying to do. Does that make sense?

Harry Duran 00:23:31:

Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that and thank you for being open. I mean, I've been, I say, coming out of the spiritual closet for, like, the past 20 years, you know, slowly and slowly.

Andy Seckinger 00:23:40:

Oh, I love the way you in bed.

Harry Duran 00:23:43:

And I mean, we're all. I just think we're all spiritual beings and so. And everyone can take their version of that and whatever works, but it's kind of silly not to think that there's something else going on and, you know, and those. I'm trying to get back into my meditation routine, and I noticed a measurable difference when I'm consistent with it, when I find that time to be quiet in the mornings, you know, with all that I'm slightly neurodivergent. So I've an overactive imagination and a mind of things going on, like 10 things at once. But it's interesting, this idea of remembering that, you know, we're all energetic beings and it would just stand to reason that, you know, if you are not giving off a good vibe before you say word one to someone you're trying to work with, they're gonna pick up something from you already. You know, we all know that feeling of like when someone walks into the room and you're like, o, I'm off with that guy. Or you know, that's a real thing.

Andy Seckinger 00:24:31:

Yeah. And what I love about. Okay, the first time I started selling to CEOs, I was in leasing and I learned a lot. I think it changed me from being a salesperson to more of a well rounded business person. And the reason I say that as I was leasing technology and large technology deals, you know, millions of dollars, but when you talk to a CEO, you better make sense and answer things quickly because they don't have time for bs. I actually not only survived, I thrived in it because I love people that are very direct, but like you. You, I'm going to go look up that word you said because I'll go learn that because I'm a word merchant. But that's kind of the issue is not listening to the circus in your head that can screw with you sometimes or make you overconfident. And so, okay, I finally reconciled with after my divorce. I think that's the first time I really said, oh, that's what an ego is when you think you're in the right and you might be in the wrong on some things. And I really took a step back and started saying, you know something, I'm going to put you on a chain and up in a cage for a while and I'm not going to listen to you for a while because I don't like what you're saying. And so I'm having fun with it. But I was blessed with some things that showed up in my life with some few, but some people had said some things that were very profound to me and I started listening to that. And then I think what I found out is sometimes you have to find out things alone. You just don't have to do it alone. And so I think life is here to help us. And this was a big profound thing to me. Life is here to help us. It's up to us not to say bad or good. Life is here to really help Us. And the more I looked at that, it sort of elevated, I would say, my thinking and getting out of those sometimes horrible things that can work against you. And I can say this now is blessed. I grew up in a tough family environment. I grew up where you were harshly treated, not beaten up or anything. It was just more of emotion. It was very difficult when you made a mistake. So I probably grew up with not having that resolved. I had a fear in me. I always wanted to be a people pleaser and stuff. So once you sort of work through all that, you realize, hey, we're all in this together. You know, nobody's out to get you. And I had a major shift in my life, and that's why I hope it's okay that I brought up the divorce part. It's not, oh, whoa. Me, your victim is where this happens. And then suddenly, I never thought it would happen to me because we're best friends. But it was a very profound change in me, and I'm very grateful now. And of course, it hurts once in a while and everything else, but it was beautiful for me because it sort of helped me confront and look at some things where I maybe didn't like some stuff about myself and got it out of it. So getting back to that, I'm thinking of an animal right now. I love animals, and it's. I'm really honored. Like when I was in Iowa and you could walk up to a cow, or you could see animals, and they're comfortable around you. I remember my neighbor, I don't drink anymore, but I got a little hammered on Christmas Eve one time, and two weeks later, two donkeys showed up. And I looked at my wife and said, hey, what's going on? She goes, you bought those donkeys, you know, with so and so and so. All of a sudden, I was embraced with two donkeys, and I couldn't believe how much I adored these things. But what I love about is they want nothing to do with you until they trust you. And then, unfortunately, once they trust you, you got to watch it because you don't want to feed a brain donkey. And luckily, I didn't. But my example of this is, I think Mary's into life. Animals will know immediately if something's up with you and want nothing to do with you. And humans are the same way. I can't believe when people say animals are dumb. I don't even say anything anymore. Good luck with that stuff. No, they're not. I think they're very intelligent. And so as humans are.

Harry Duran 00:28:08:

That's Great. And I thank you for being so open with your story. I myself have gone through a divorce. 13 years I was married. And I can definitely relate. You know, you're checking off all the boxes when you say some of the things you were going through that you don't realize when you were in the moment. And looking back, you're like, well, I. There's a lot of moments where I could have behaved much more differently, and a lot of it is related to ego and just making poor choices at the time. So, you know, I think, you know, obviously, in hindsight's always 20 20, and so you can look back and be like, I should have done this and should have done that and should have done that. But then you have to realize, like, you know. You know, everyone comes into your life. I think the phrase is for a reason or a season or a lifetime. And I think it's important to realize. And thankfully, I was able to reconcile, like, my friendship with my ex, and we stay in contact, which is incredibly important to me because we are, you know, we're best friends for that period. You can't go that long of a period of time as you can relate to, you know, and not know a person. So, you know, I appreciate that. And it's just a reminder, like, we're all, you know, humans living human lives, and, you know, this is the stuff that happens, you know, that goes unspoken, but just to kind of bring it back full circle, all this is happening within people and to people. And so when you think you're. You get two people in a room and you think you're there to just have a sales meeting, like, if you're not connecting with that person and understanding what the environment is and what's happening, you know, making sure not to bring your own negative energy or bad energy to the conversation, but also being empathetic enough to see, like, what else is going on in this person's world, you know, it's a great skill set to have the sympathy and. And also the animals. Having been here in Minnesota now we're on a more rural area that's about 30 minutes outside the city. And we're, like, on an acre of land. We've got our own. We have but a marsh here. So there's, like, rabbits, there's deer walking across the property. Now we've got a raccoon that comes to visit. But it is interesting with turkeys. There's just turkeys walking across. I'll walk out to the. This office here is, like, separate from the house. I have to walk across the yard.

Andy Seckinger 00:30:10:

I know where you live when you told me. You're in a beautiful area.

Harry Duran 00:30:13:

Yeah. And so when I walk across the yard, turkeys, like, they're waiting to see if I'm going to give them some corn because I've got a stash of it in the office. They'll just walk right up to you. And the rabbits is interesting too, because normally they're skittish, but there's so many places to hide that I think there's some rabbits that have been, like, raised here. And so, like, they're not as afraid. And I keep testing it, like, how close can I get? How close can I get? And I got pretty close the other day to one. And it's an interesting reminder of, like, this fearful energy, that rabbits are probably the first ones to have that fear response. And so it's, like, interesting to see, like, I'm like, you know, that they're not afraid. And it's a reminder, like, all the times that you're in situations where you're feeling afraid, especially with a high pressure situation, like a speaking to a CEO about sales, you know, that know that fight or flight kicks in pretty quick, I would imagine.

Andy Seckinger 00:30:59:

Yeah. And I appreciate you understanding and talking about that because I also looked probably in the beginning, I was like, everything was my fault. A friend of mine said, don't look at it that way. You know, it's, you know, it's kind of 50, 50. But I really felt responsible for everything because I just thought I was trying to do everything and I was helping the business grow. And although I was home on weekends and stuff, I just realized the travel over my career really, you know, like you said, when you look back, that didn't, you know, serve things too well. But what's beautiful about it now is that no one was doing anything to hurt anybody. It's just the way life happens and how we react stuff. And I think what I'm going back to is that other thing is the more we work on ourselves, the more you can show up for people. And then I realize, oh, I got a couple of things to learn to get my compass back on track. And hey, who would know? Four years later, I'm going to this cloud part or this place in Cocoa Beach, Florida. I moved to Florida because I like warm weather. I live in Puerto Rico now, so if you have questions about it, I'll explain it. But I was trying to learn how to salsa dance. And have you ever seen a rabbit smoke a cigarette? That's what I look trying to salsa dance. But I noticed a lady there, and I thought I was interested in her. Luckily, I got to know her, and of all things, I accept this job and I moved to Puerto Rico because I always wanted to live on an island.

Harry Duran 00:32:21:

Yes.

Andy Seckinger 00:32:22:

And I moved to Puerto Rico, and she happens to be Puerto Rican, but she was from Rochester, New York. And I said, hey, I got a job in Puerto Rico. And you did. And then I let that handle for a minute, and then I said, you're coming with me. And so luckily, she's here with me and moved here two and a half months ago. And it's absolutely been wonderful. And so all the things I didn't do right in my first marriage, a chance to do this the second time around.

Harry Duran 00:32:45:

That's great. Thank you for sharing that and thank you for all that backstory. And just a reminder of all the nuances that go into thinking about, like, sales conversations. It's really just the tip of the iceberg. It's really like everything that has happened before then that gets you to that moment. And I think it's just a reminder for folks to be conscious of those. Is there something you see, like, people that are new to sales, like, first time, you know, first timers, or people who don't have that specific skill set, do you see or have you seen, like, just common mistakes that they. They keep making over and over?

Andy Seckinger 00:33:18:

Yeah, I'm actually training a couple people right now, and I'm kind of chuckling. One's experienced in sales and then one wasn't. And I've done a lot of sales training in my career, but I don't consider myself a trainer at all. I think that is best left to people that have that teaching skill. I might be being harsh on myself, but I think I'm better for someone catching me at what I'm doing than. And try to teach. But yeah, I've trained a lot of salespeople, but basically the biggest mistakes are is when someone thinks you have to know all this information and then try to get it across to somebody in 30 seconds or, you know, I hate the word pitch. I don't want to pitch. I don't want to teach anybody a pitch, But I'd rather do is make a statement for a good reason that captures someone's attention. Because to me, here's the seriousness now of what I'm getting at. My mother at a young age got cancer and went through a horrible 16 years of, you know, losing body parts and died. And so when I get into sales, I say, hey, wait A minute. There's people in businesses out here that need help. I need to look at this as if they have cancer. And if I have the solution, I better make sure I'm handling this correctly. Because if someone has cancer and I screw up, mess something up or something's going on with me, well, I've just done that person a disservice. And so I look at farmers as I've looked at anybody is. I'm not saying you have cancer. What I'm saying now is you can just. You can approach someone and you don't vomit on them. You try to quickly as possibly try to learn more about their farm. You don't want to make. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't make yourself so interesting to someone. Make them the interesting person and sincerely mean it. And this is where we talk about integrity. If you're doing something and you're not feeling right about it, that's not cool. People are going to know that. But if you're passionate about it, people will be very forgiving with you because they'll see your enthusiasm, your genuineness. But it's more about just considering your audience the right questions to ask and then like you're doing right now in a beautiful way. And I watched. Thank you for telling me to watch some of the other podcasts, because I should have watched them anyways. But you kind of go where things go in a nice way, but you also know what you're doing. You've done a lot of work on it, so it makes it a nice environment for this. But it's basically knowing your audience, caring about them, the right questions. And although this sounds odd, I'm more interested in helping people and everything will work itself out later on. We don't do things for free, but, you know, it's very important to look at it that way. Some other mistakes are like a farmer, you gotta show up every day and you need to do what it is that you're doing. And whether you like it or not, get that out of your head and remember why you're doing something in that discipline. A lot of people can get scared of, not want to do or whatever. And he kept showing up. There's days where after a while. I can't believe this. When I was after my divorce, I was so sad and Covid and stuff. I was going to job and I couldn't. I didn't want to look at myself in the rearview mirror. But I just said, hey, you're a pro. Get up, show up, make this thing happen. I'd lost a job in Covid, a job promise when I moved to Florida. And then, anyways, I took something that I used to do before, but you show up every day. And then I realized, like everybody else, hey, I'm, you know, I'm professional. So you kind of leave your stuff at the door. Make it happen. Now, the honest truth of this is I feel like I'm a pretty happy guy. And most of the time I'm pretty happy. So I show up for it. But we all have those days, and it's important to kind of park that and then be there for that person on the other end of it. Does that make sense?

Harry Duran 00:36:43:

Yeah, it totally makes sense. I appreciate you sharing that. So let's get into some brass tacks about this world of grants. Yeah, I think it's one of those things that people hear of and feel like it can help, and then when they dip their toe in it. I've had this experience. You get to a website or get to a page or you get to like, thinking you're going to apply for something, and it's just so overwhelming. And you mentioned, like, dealing with, like, complicated services like the irs, and I think people equate it with that experience. It's just like an icky experience. It's like making people jump through so many loopholes and reading fine print and down and reading, like, requirements and do you qualify and do you not? And again, people. Farmers are busy. You know, they're busy and they don't have time to do this. And so I think that's, I imagine why, how your service was born. But, you know, how about a primer on grant writing or accessing grants? And maybe it could be just as simple as connecting with you. But, you know, how can, you know, farmers and entrepreneurs, like, look at this grant process through a different lens?

Andy Seckinger 00:37:45:

Well, thank you for what you just said. I wanted to give. You're getting a big mental hug because that, you know, that's kind of the way I looked at it. And what I loved about this was, I think one of my first conversations is I had called a farmer and he was in Ohio, and I had just said, hey, do you like dealing with the government? And he goes, no. And I said, okay, well, there's a program going on and I'd like to help you with it. And luckily there was other things that went on. It's not this simple. But basically what happened was I've gotten them up to almost $900,000 just on that program. And so I'M not saying we get everybody $900,000, but that's not what I'm saying. But, you know, there's a high and a low to this. So I think right off the top of my head, probably three things. Number one, if you like doing that, you want to do it on your own, you know, good luck. Some of the concerns about it is that the government is understaffed and they have a heavy workload. And, you know, everybody's trying to do their best day. But if you make a mistake on something or something's not done right, we've, you know, application can get it worse. It could get approved and you get five bucks when you could have got 500,000. But, you know, people may not always know that. I'm not saying if you do it on your own, you're going to be unsuccessful. It's just risk, like going to court without an attorney. I would rather have an attorney, but that category is fine. It's just what you just said, man. If you can keep up with all the grants and programs that are out there and read through those, you're. That's very impressive. I sincerely mean this. Good luck. I don't have a problem with that. Good for you. That's amazing. I'm not one of those people, and nor are clients. Number two is you're working with a grant writer or someone. I think the difference there is that that's fine, but whatever workload they have and whatever they can handle, that's what you're doing there. Then there's us, and we work as a team. And I think this is very important because we, for example, have a compliance department. The compliance department is comprised of people that we actually hired from the fsa. So thank you. So what's beautiful about it is they're.

Harry Duran 00:39:45:

An FSA for those that don't know.

Andy Seckinger 00:39:46:

Oh, Farm Services Agency. The important part is that they work for the government, but more importantly, they've worked in agriculture and they understand how to do these applications. I'm not taking a shot at Farm Services Agency or any of the people in there. I'm just saying when I asked them, why do you want to work here? They weren't in the same room and it was a different interview. But they said, we can't do what you do. And I said, what do you think we do? And he said, well, we've seen it. You personalize people's applications, you help and you advise to make sure you maximize the amount of money. We're told we can't do that. And we got to watch what we talk about. And so there's real value in that when you can help someone to not only make sure it's not paper pushing, it's understanding the ingredients of what's going on in that program and making sure that it gets done to maximize the amount of money that they get. So that compliance team is very important. Then we have analysts. What are analysts doing? Really smart people that study the Internet and watch these grants and programs so that they advise us and make sure that when we talk to a farmer that we're. It's the right grant or program, it's not interfering with anything else, and it's going to be, you know, the best one for them. I've always said two heads are better than one man. We've got like 12 here that work, you know, beautifully as a team. And then lastly, we've got, you know, all of our account executives. I'm a sales director, but really I'm kind of an account executive. I just work with the founder to help them in areas. And then we have people that were farmers are involved in farming as account executives. But being close to farmers in that way is very important because you already understand what they're going through. So that's us. And then what works very well is that we don't charge any money upfront. It's only a success fee that we agree to upfront. And then when the money's successfully deposited in an account, they happily pay that invoice because they appreciated, you know, what we did. But it's not a transaction. We want. We work with a relationship with our clients. And what's. Harry, I'm blown away. I've made friendships here in this job with people that are friends now, basically, that started out and it wasn't just getting them money. It was just you really get to know them and they come apart of like, to me, an extended, you know, family. It's an honor to get to know these people, but to be able to be a part of being able to help them and sustain themselves. So that's where we come in. And I think what's real easy here is there's a lot of farmers out there that would rather farm. They're busy. They don't want to deal with this. They just want someone they can trust and work with them on it. And we operate with integrity. There's no BS here. We tell people up front we're not all things to all people. But depending on what's going on with the government at the time, we'll try our best to match a grant and program for it.

Harry Duran 00:42:23:

Is there something that you've seen that's consistent with folks that have had success? You know, you mentioned that grant. I think it was about 900k you sourced for that one client. Is there something about those folks that they do differently or do better when it comes to this process? Or maybe they. In terms of. Or do they have an offer that's clearly understood? You know, what's. If you could point to something and you look back at the ones that have been able to secure a decent chunk of grant money, is there a common thread there?

Andy Seckinger 00:42:55:

If I understand your question correctly, it really goes down to. Okay, I may not be 100% accurate here, but this is my experience. I don't think farmers lives always fit perfectly into what's being offered. Okay, so the ones that have things that are going on that are a perfect fit, well, you know, cool. Then you make sure you understand the farm and you marry that into what's going on. But a lot of other farmers have stuff going on where you really need to understand their farm. And we need to advise and grab the information and data that they provide. So that's a good thing. If they've got good records and they're keeping track of everything, then you can pull this information and use that to their advantage for them. That when we communicate with the government and the ones that we're able to talk to that are being honest, but more about, hey, did you consider this? Do you have this going on? And then we really personalize that experience so we understand them better. But the ones that have all the documentation, they can respond and go get you what's needed. Those are the ones that are most successful. Very rare. But the folks that, to me, 99.9% of farmers are just a beautiful audience. You know, like attorneys, salespeople, everybody else. You got your creeps in your industry, man. Farmers lack a lot of creeps in that industry. You know, there's every. But for the most part, you know, they're very honest and forthcoming. So what's fun to work with them is when you get engaged and they trust you, they want to succeed as well. So it's the people that keep good records and are able to get the information that you need.

Harry Duran 00:44:26:

Yeah, yeah. That makes the sense to reason as well. From your vantage point, do you see anything in terms of trends in the ag space where there's more interest in terms of grant writers or even pools of money? You know, I'm just curious what the environment looks like for grants in the ag space currently, are you saying, okay.

Andy Seckinger 00:44:46:

In the beginning of the year, the new administration looked like a skating rink? You know, I didn't get involved in any of these programs, but there was a program out there that was supposed to help people previous to. And by the way, I'm not getting political, I'm just hopefully quoting what's going on. But everybody knew that. But there was people that invested in like, you know, there were solar deals going on. And it's not the people that were selling it or the grant, it's just they were told, hey, invest money in this. And what's really sad to see is the new administration came in and shut that program down. So not only did they invest, did the farmer give money they didn't have for the solar project and they got approved. They were all went flat and said, not only not approved, you have to reapply and we'll let you know. And it opens up. That was a very, hopefully an isolated thing, but no one wants to be dealing with that. But what's happening now is the doors are open up a little bit more. We're working with disaster recovery programs, and it looks very positive for that. Some of the things that came out the beginning of the year were automated for a good reason. What I mean by automated is the government was trying to automate it based on like, say your acreage reporting. And so then, you know, they go ahead and get an application, you submit it, you know, for ECAP and stuff like that. The ones where we come in are, well, I have farmers that want to do all of them for them. And the point that I'm going to make here is if we come up with one program, for example, whether it's, you know, 3002-001500-00902 million, once you do one of those programs that someone doesn't know about, that easily makes up for the relationship going forward, you know what I'm saying? But the government's opening their purse strings. I think this is not getting ahead of my ski tips, but I don't think any administration wants to pick on farmers. We need food on our table, especially now more than ever and everything. So basically, I think it was a matter as they were trying to do whatever they did, getting rid of stuff. And then now we're back to seeing more of the grants and programs opening up.

Harry Duran 00:46:42:

Well, that's definitely promising news. Thanks for that perspective. So, as we get close to wrapping up, I have a question. I usually ask folks that are coming on the show better CEOs and founders. But I'm curious how you'd answer it. What's a tough question you've had to ask yourself recently?

Andy Seckinger 00:46:58:

What's a tough question I've had to ask myself recently? Yeah. In business or in life, you pick. It goes back to, all right, I know you asked me a question, and be honest, I'm very positive and happy about the business stuff going on here. And so that I think that's all gonna be just fine. But recently I started reading a book called Conversations with God.

Harry Duran 00:47:25:

Love that book.

Andy Seckinger 00:47:27:

The toughest question I asked myself was, am I gonna go back to this thing where I've met some people lately that said God's been telling what to do? And I luckily didn't say, you know, are they crazy? But I was just like, the more I got to know them, and by the way, they're in the vertical farming industry. But luckily I parked that attitude and I just went. Cause I would have been spiritual, but I was like, what's going on here? And then it's very strange. Some wonderful people have come into my life in this industry that they think I'm helping them, they're helping me. But the toughest question was, am I going to start reading about this and investigate it again? And I'm glad I did, because I started reading Conversation with God. I'm not trying to sell a book or anything. You just have where I'm at in life. I love reading it. So the toughest question was, am I going to read this? And that might sound odd, but there's more going on here. It sort of opened up something in me. So what started out a tough question actually ended up being beautiful. And by the way, there's one thing I need to give credit to is years while I listened to a lady called Bernie Brown that said the power of being vulnerable. And that is what changed my life. And that's why I've gotten more comfortable with. When I brought up my divorce. It's not to being pretty pity or anything, but I loved how you took this, which was, things are happening in people's lives, and appropriately, when you talk about them, you can relate. Because recently one of my clients had said, you got a divorce? And I said, yeah, I got fired after 29 years. He goes, I'm going through one. He goes, can I talk to you for a minute? I can't talk to anybody. And I was like, yeah. And I was honored because I had no idea when I shared that we connected and we already knew each other well, but you never know what people are going through.

Harry Duran 00:49:05:

Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, thanks. That's. I'm always surprised and never can predict where these. The answers to these questions will go. So I was pleasantly surprised that you took it there.

Andy Seckinger 00:49:14:

I know. I was worried. I didn't want to be a loose cannon today, you know.

Harry Duran 00:49:17:

No, it's okay. I think it's just a reminder. And, you know, having been a podcaster for 11 years, you know, just enjoyed the openness of these conversations. And I always say they're conversations and not interviews, and I always wanted to feel like the person listening just pulled up a stool and, you know, we're having a chat at the pub, and. And they just want to listen in on us. I always tell my students and clients on the podcasting side, there's three people in a conversation. There's the host, there's the guest, and then there's a listener, one listener, singular, you know, listening to this conversation at a time. So I'm always conscious of that. And I think a lot of what you said today is going to resonate with folks in a meaningful way. So I appreciate our connection and I appreciate the, you know, the time we spent together. We've created a special link for folks that want to learn more. It's going to be at verticalfarmingpodcast.com forward/grants, and there's. It'll be a direct connection to Andy and learn all the details about how you can. If you think a grant would be good for you or you'd be interested, then Andy's definitely the guy to talk to. So thanks again for the time today, and I really appreciate getting to know you a little bit better.

Andy Seckinger 00:50:19:

Andy, Harry, I'm truly grateful, and thank you. And you are who you say you are. Everything you just said, I saw in your podcast. So thank you for being this, because this is this cool.

Harry Duran 00:50:29:

Thank you.

Andy Seckinger 00:50:29:

I've got some people. By the way, as you know, I'm going to tee up for future shows.

Harry Duran 00:50:32:

Yes, please do. Thanks again, Andy. I really enjoyed our chat.

Andy Seckinger 00:50:35:

Thank you, Harry.